Date of Interview: 11/02

Date of this Copy: 2/17/03

Isles Wallace is a C++ computer programmer and has managed to keep her job over the last year and a half, while Seattle has undergone the worst layoffs in high tech per capita of anywhere in the world. Before returning to school in 1998 to get a one year computer programming certificate from North Seattle Community College, she worked as a chef. Today, in 2003, her title is both Senior Programmer and Product Manager. Isles says that after 3 years of programming, she didn’t realize she was a Senior Programmer, but that her supervisor wanted to ensure that she was compensated in proportion to her contribution, hence the additional title.

Isles has a talent for getting hired for a job beneath her level of competency but then quickly getting promoted to a more appropriate position. I figure that makes her worth interviewing.

Isles describes her own appearance and image as "short, round, motherly, no nonsense, early 40s".

She arrived at my house straight from work and she is wearing clothes "on the artsy side of businesswear" (her description): an ankle-length straight skirt, a shell blouse, jacket, pearls, pin, several bangle bracelets, and Birkenstock sandals with socks. Her long frizzy dark hair is wrapped in a twist, but wisps at the sides betray her lack of hairspray and excess hairpins. The normal attire in Seattle for the work that she does is casual (jeans, pull-overs), so even with the Birkenstocks, socks, and a few wisps escaping from her hair twist, she is more formal in her appearance than most (but not all) of her co-workers.

Isles: "I found out about the job originally through the career counseling services at the Community College. My employer was a start-up then (I was the 9^th employee). I was originally hired to do tech support – telephone support for customers."

Q: "Wow, for someone who got top grades at the Community College while studying programming at the height of the boom, that seems like a low level job."

Isles: "Well, I knew I was going move up in the company, even at the interview, because it was a start-up, I knew there were going to be new positions created. And if I hadn’t moved up, after a while I would have moved on. In my past, I’ve tended to stay at jobs for about 5 years, with 3 leaps in position, a leap about every year and a half, so I expected this to be similar."

Q: "One of the reasons your career history fascinates me is because of what you had working against you – things we share in common: you are female, you are heavy, some of the old flower child leaks through in your dress and attitudes, you changed career late in life and were doing something totally unrelated before this and you are over the hill in terms of the normal age demographic for programmers."

Isles: "I work for a small company (40 people) and most of the core people are around our age." She laughs. "I know, in many ways I lucked-out. A lot of the managerial and people skills I gained while being a chef, I feel will transfer over to anything."

Isles: "I remember the first time I needed to talk to the CTO (Shawn). He was always so busy and hard to find, but I knew that when he arrived in the morning he had to walk past my office to get to his. I arrived early and made a big sign with "Shawn trap" and an arrow pointing to my office and put it outside my office door. He laughed and came in, but that got me the help I needed."

Isles: "A lot of what I do is sort of secretarial. I take minutes at meetings. The last time the CTO went on a long vacation, he left me in charge, of course as soon as he returned he wanted everything back. That was tough because employees had gotten accustomed to coming to me for things and when they did it was hard for me to send them to him instead of just handling it myself. And then he wasn’t pleased. So we had to reevaluate and negotiate about what I could do and what I needed to send back to him."

Q: "Do you program?"

Isles: "I’m the lead programmer on our core product, but I also do everything; whatever the company needs. It didn’t start out that way but it has evolved that way.

Q: "How?"

Isles: "Hmmm, I think it started during a short period when I had a bad boss. I mean he was just bad for the company. He worked a 40 hour week and if there was more work that needed to be completed, he just left it undone. He did no more than whatever was asked of him. I think he had previously worked in a large company where that was the norm."

Isles: "One week was very critical – we were in the middle of a big rollout – ‘go live’ situation. I stayed all weekend working on the project working to get what we needed in place for our deadline, and the company owner walked in. He asked me why I was working such long hours. I think I said something like ‘if I don’t do it, how is it going to get done?’"

Q: "Was that the first time you worked late?"

Isles: "Oh no. That was just the first time someone noticed."

Q: "As far as unpaid overtime goes, would you say you are about average for your company?"

Isles: "No, I definitely do put in a lot more total unpaid overtime than the other employees, except, maybe for the owners themselves. I’m a big picture person and I tend to take on responsibility. I know that makes me a better candidate for smaller companies, where I can make a visible impact. I know about how small businesses work from my experience as a chef and I get involved in making sure the things will get done that are necessary for the business to make a profit. I’ve never worked anywhere where I was told ‘just do your job’ (and nothing more). I don’t think that would be a good fit for me."

When the company needed someone to get Red Cross certified, I volunteered. When they need documentation on anything, I do it. There have been times when I’ve stayed on Saturday and Sunday until 8:00pm.

Q: "Do you get overtime pay or comp time?"

Isles: "Not usually. Sometimes there are special circumstances."

Q: "So what happened with the bad boss?"

Isles: "Not much later after that, they let him go. Then the previous CTO came back to the company. That was much better for me."

Q: "Tell me about your relationship with your boss."

Isles: "I have a lot of respect for him. He sort of took me under his wing and taught me how he wanted things done and why. I became a sponge and just soaked up every piece of information he gave me. I’ve absorbed his values and vision for the company and I’ve learned a lot about the industry from him."

Q: "What about when you disagree with him?"

Isles: "I don’t fight about style decisions or stupid stuff. I worked for him for a year before I first challenged him on a decision. I argued my point of view and he changed his mind. I rarely find anything to disagree with him about, after all, he’s the visionary of the business."

Q: "Okay, so how much real sucking-up do you do?"

Isles: "Some, I guess. When I was hired, one of the owners interviewed me, and we found out then that we had a mutual friend. I didn’t have as much contact with the owners back then, but if they came into the office, I would always say "hello" to them. If they are in a talkative mood, I’ll joke with them. I do make an effort to take a break from my scheduled work to connect with them personally, to ask about their family or whatever they have recently mentioned as going on in their personal lives. It doesn’t really feel like sucking-up because that’s what I do with my friends, too, and I genuinely like the owners."

Q: "I guess I can vouch for that. You are very good at putting other people at ease and getting them to talk about themselves. Have you ever had a personality problem with a particular individual at work?"

Isles: "No, um, well, yes there was. During the time of fast growth there were two women who were hired who didn’t seem to like me. They wouldn’t smile at me, they weren’t cooperative when I needed documentation from them. I still don’t know why they didn’t like me. I tried everything: from being especially nice to them, and when that didn’t work, to asserting my authority. No matter what I did I couldn’t get their cooperation."

Q: "How did it get resolved?"

Isles: "Well, it was difficult for a long time, but they were the first to go in the layoffs – I wasn’t the only person they had issues with. They also had a style of doing only the specific jobs assigned to them, they wanted to be experts at one task, and although they were fairly good at that, it wasn’t enough for the small business. It made them seem unhelpful and unwilling to take initiative."

Q: "Do you think that female employees are expected to be more helpful to their co-workers than male employees, in general: answering the phone for other people, taking messages, facilitating communication for projects that aren’t their direct responsibility?"

Isles: "That’s an interesting question. Yes, I think that is true in general, but it also depends on the individual. And I don’t know if there are other things that the men do that the women aren’t usually expected to do. Maybe lifting heavy things?"

Q: "What about flirtation. Do you flirt with your boss or coworkers?"

Isles: "Absolutely not. It is part of the reason I play up the motherly image. The message I want to broadcast is: my body is non-threatening and safe. I keep myself totally un-sexy at work."

Q: "You said that with very strong conviction. Do you think this is a good policy for all or most women?"

Isles: "Yes. I think it is bad for men to be reacting sexually to women on the job. It confuses them. It makes it more difficult for men to react impartially. They don’t know if they should be defending the woman or what. So that is a work-rule of mine."

Q: "What are the other things you purposefully do to fit in at work? How did you know what time to arrive in the morning?"

Isles: "Yeah, there are the written policies and the unwritten rules of behavior. I try to identify who the key people are, the people who are valued by the owners, the people who have lots of responsibility and secure jobs. I try to emulate their behavior. For example, the key people where I work come in early and leave late, work unpaid overtime, and take on responsibility when there is a need. I do likewise."

Isles: "One of my other rules is ‘never talk about coworkers at work’. I never gossip. I never give forth opinions about other people. I never talk about one coworker to another coworker except in official capacity that is related to providing information to get a job done. I never talk about my personal likes and dislikes of my coworkers."

Q: "And you think this is another rule that will work for everybody?"

Isles: "Yes, I do."

Isles: "Another thing: I do my best to understand the big picture because this is my nature and also because I think I do the company when I am doing this. But I realize everyone doesn’t work that way. I don’t volunteer ‘big picture’ information to coworkers unless they ask for it; and I NEVER give my understanding of the ‘big picture’ to people above me because it is their job to know this better than I do and that would be presumptuous of me."

Q: "At this point, you are one of the core people. Have you done anything with that power?

Isles: "I started ‘fun Friday’. On Fridays, sometimes a few of us will go out to lunch together. We try to get anyone in the company who wants to join us to come along. Sometimes I’ll bring in beer or wine for the company on Friday afternoon. I also get involved with orienting new hires. I show them where things are, make sure they get essential information and act like an peer mentor…."

Q: "So one more time, how did you get from Telephone Support to Product Manager?"

Isles: "I took notes at meetings. There was no one doing it formally at the time. I would write them up for myself so I would have a record I could refer back to. But soon other people would be sending around emails ‘do you remember what we decided at the last meeting?’ And I would have the answer. After this happened a couple of times, I just started sending broadcast emails of my meeting minutes after every meeting."

Q: "How did you know to do this?"

Isles: "Actually, I didn’t. I didn’t realize that there was a position called ‘Product Manager’ and that part of the duties included tracking product feedback. I just saw the need and did the work for myself. After it became obvious to other employees that this was also a need, I did it publicly for the company. After a while I was given the title of Product Manager.

These are my usual steps:

• first do the work but be quiet about it until I’m sure what I am doing and until others also see the need for it,
• then I’m ready to be the one providing it or to help with it,
• eventually I get the position officially."

Q: "Do you think this would always work?"

Isles: "It works in the right company culture. And it works if you aren’t imposing additional structure that others haven’t already agreed is needed. In other words, your coworkers will resist additional structure being added to what they are doing unless they have seen the need for it, too."

Q: "Let’s just go through some typical situations of human interaction at business and you can tell me how you would or have handled them:

What do you do when you see someone doing something inefficiently?"

Isles: "I hint. I figure that no one likes to have someone else tell them how to do something but if I see someone doing something blatantly inefficient, it is hard for me to keep totally quiet, but I also don’t want to impose my way of doing something on someone else. I should mention that when I was first hired, I would not have known enough to be sure anyone was doing anything inefficiently, so this is a behavior that has evolved with experience."

Q: "Have you ever had a situation in which a co-worker asked you for help with his/her assignments on a regular basis but would not return the favor?"

Isles: "Yes, eventually, I stop helping him. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for a long time before I decided he had made it a one way street."

Q: "How do you acknowledge someone who has helped you with your work?"

Isles: "I thank them publicly or mention it to my boss or owners."

Q: "What kind of balance do you strike between treating everyone as an individual and treating everyone equally?"

Isles: "I treat everyone as an individual. I have no trouble enforcing the rules equally."

Q: "What about when you make a mistake or think you may have offended someone?"

Isles: "If I make a mistake, I acknowledge it as soon as I realize it. If I think I may have offended someone, (but if my communication was honest and real) I’ll apologize for ‘being abrupt’. In other words, without saying I was wrong, I will apologize for hurting (or possibly hurting) someone’s feelings."

Q: "How do you handle it when a coworker has done an inadequate job of something that affects your work?"

Isles: "I do their work. Unless it is a big ongoing problem, I probably won’t say anything about it."

Q: "What do you do when your boss asks you to do something you won’t be able to complete or complete on time or complete to full specs?"

Isles: "I let him know as early as possible. This doesn’t happen very often, so even if I do have a suspicion that I won’t be able to complete it, I’ll let him know."

Q: "Is there much after-hours socializing between co-workers at your company and do you participate?"

Isles: "There’s some, mostly it’s lunches. I participate some. I don’t feel like I have to be at every after-hours social meeting, but I go to the ones that everyone attends. I do go out to lunch with them."

Q: "What was the most recent self-sacrifice you made for the company?"

Isles: "I got a raise. I was actually very happy with the raise and it was even more than I expected, but I was told it was going to be retroactive and then they didn’t do that. When I think about it, it upsets me a little because I was told to expect one thing and given something else. What do you think? Am I being a patsy by letting it slide? There are so many people unemployed right now, and the raise was a generous one. So, I’m not going to complain about it."

September 1998. Original version: July 1995

Welcome to the Job Keeper’s SIG. This is the standard letter to prospective members.

What if I don’t have a problem keeping a job?

Maybe a job isn’t the answer to "what should I do for a living?" Is it is a bridge to a new career? Holding a slot on someone else’s payroll is a product of the industrial revolution—a 20th century phenomenon. Jobs, as thousands of people discover weekly, appear headed for Jurassic Park. There is no security. If you can keep a job, then you have something of value to share. In exchange, you may learn more about improving what you do have.

For most of us, job loss is traumatic and has long-lasting effects. Michael Ovitz had the comfort of over $100 million in severance—most of us are lucky to get enough to pay for parking at Disney Land. For the "disposable generation" (born since 1960), jobs are hard to keep. When you sacrifice to obtain credentials, and then work smart with the knowledge you have, you still lose. We look at why this is and what to do about it.

If you pull rabbits out of your hat and save the company, why are you the first one let go during a restructuring? Does performance matter? Is there a magic bullet? We all have different experiences and sources of knowledge. If we pool our diverse information, we may unlock the secrets that allow incompetents to thrive (the Dilbert Principle) no matter what. We can apply those secrets to our own jobs.

Tell me about the Newsletter.

Our newsletter recognizes your time is too important to spend reviewing bloated tripe—our letter is lean and muscular (but not so dry you yawn at it). If you have really useful information, send it to me and I will include it.

"Do a good job" is vague. A reader can focus better on something like, "work to make your boss look good." A reader can really bite into, "do those spreadsheets your boss has been complaining she hates." If you have found how to do something to your advantage, how to ride out the storm, how to get a good raise, then you have just the kind of information we’re looking for.

Many of us are bosses, ourselves. How do you keep subordinates from undermining you? Do you catch your bees with honey or with vinegar? Do you use a carrot, a stick, or both? How do you use them, and when? Do you get someone else to use the stick so you stay clean? Are you the world’s best butt-kisser? Share your knowledge with the rest of us, as we come to the feeding trough! Are you the best backstabber there ever was? Do your associates get stopped at airport metal detectors after dealing with you? Now you can be recognized for your talents. How do you deal with the company backstabber?

How can I get an idea to you?

E-mail: writer@ieee.org. Snail mail: 4806 Wedd St; Merriam, KS 66203-5414. Anybody who joins this SIG can call me—I’d love to hear from you. Problem is, you’ll probably catch me @ a bad time. But hey, take a chance. My ph# is (913)UD1-RITE. (I’m an editor). Consider giving a gift membership.